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Old 03-11-2009, 04:12 PM   #11
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What I heard, from SMU last year, was that their degree courses are catered more towards legal consultancy in businesses. They were a little unclear on whether their LLB is admissable for the Bar Exams and the Bench. Seniors might want to be careful on this.
i have checked a few sources, including straight from the horse's mouth at ble, and confirmed that smu's llb is accepted for entrance into the bar, as it should be. i believe that the requirement is a gpa of 3.0 if i don't remember wrongly.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:16 PM   #12
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i have checked a few sources, including straight from the horse's mouth at ble, and confirmed that smu's llb is accepted for entrance into the bar, as it should be. i believe that the requirement is a gpa of 3.0 if i don't remember wrongly.
If anyone needs confirmation, here it is:
http://www.lawsociety.org.sg/ble/l1_...ule%204n5).htm

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Any person admitted as a candidate for the degree of Bachelor of Laws by the Singapore Management University shall be a qualified person if -
(a) he has passed the final examination for that degree; and
(b) he has attained a grade point average of at least 3.00 in the course of study leading to that degree.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:22 PM   #13
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If anyone needs confirmation, here it is:
http://www.lawsociety.org.sg/ble/l1_...ule%204n5).htm
yes, that. thanks for the help LockT31W!
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:52 AM   #14
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SMU, true to its nature as a business university, tends to focus more on commercial and corporate law, although according to their website you are still qualified to go into other branches. NUS is a more broad-based program. If you're more interested in things like tort law or criminal law, NUS would probably be a better choice.
with regards to the syllabus, it is my understanding that smu requires you to take some modules that are not related to law. i believe some of these mandatory courses include topics such as finance and economics, not too sure about the specific details though. this might give you firmer grounding should you wish to go into corporate law.

for nus, you can choose to study only law related modules, or selected modules from other faculties as well. it is also useful to note that in terms of electives, nus would have the greater variety, encompassing a greater range of genres. so if you're interested in stuff like maritime or islamic law, nus would be a better bet.
The SMU vs NUS law debate
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:56 AM   #15
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the reason why i would consider smu to be a better place to study corporate law would be because of their requirement to do 40% of subjects that are more related to business and the workings associated with it. i won't go as for as saying that nus is lacking in preparing its students for that, but the mandatory modules of smu might be able to provide a better grounding.

when making my decision last year to choose between nus and smu law, i consulted different people including professors, current students in both schools, as well as relatives and friends i have that are currently practicing and i think it might be useful to share some of my observations and opinions. do note that i am not a student yet, still an nsf and will only be starting school in 2010.

this point is strictly a personal issue, but i don't have a particularly good impression of how smu markets itself. some might think otherwise, but i am not a fan of the way they tend to aggrandize their programs and achievements, and sometimes at the expense of the other 2 universities. granted, this is a situation that can be observed in all 3 universities, but i just dislike the way they overdo it sometimes.

teaching style. again, this is a preference of mine. i didn't fancy smu's well publicized style of teaching (ie. the seminar style). while i can understand how it might benefit some students, i do not think i am one of them unfortunately.

also, i am worried about how some negative trends might develop as a result of the heavy emphasize on class participation. some friends from smu have told me of how some of their classes have degenerated into a bit of a fiasco thanks to a few rotten apples in the class. all in all, i'm quite comfortable with the traditional lecture/tutorial style and think i learn quite well in that environment, but of course this is entirely a subject of personal inclination.

location. both schools' location have their own charm really. smu is of course located smack in the middle of town, which is a major bonus for some people. as for nus, bukit timah campus is quite a picturesque environment, gave me a nice serene feeling.

modules. this was probably the most important factor in my decision making. i took a look at the modules offered by both faculties and was a bit disappointed to see the electives, or lack of them, offered by smu. it does cover the basic compulsory modules quite adequately, but the range of electives offered was quite limited. i am particularly interested in aviation and maritime law (strange, i know), but this was not offered by smu.

i do intend to stay in the university halls for at least a year or 2 to experience a real university lifestyle, something which smu lacks. this might be something worth considering as well if you're into this sort of thing.

then of course there is that whole issue of whether smu grads might be as well regarded as nus grads. this did not really bother me too much, but with smu's program still at its infancy, employers might still prefer nus grads all other things being equal.

with this, i would end by saying that my decision in going to nus is largely influenced by those issues i mentioned. most of these are purely matters of personal preference and i am not trying to put down smu in anyway at all, lest my post stirs up some unwanted controversy. i would still recommend anyone genuinely interested in studying law to apply to both nus and smu, as competition for places is rather stiff for both of them. from there, ask around, walk around the campuses and make a final decision based on which is better for you. feel free to pm me if you have any more queries.
The SMU vs NUS law debate
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:57 AM   #16
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[B][U]The SMU vs NUS law debate
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:12 AM   #17
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Default A view point from a SMU Law and Biz dd student

*Pls ignore my earlier incomplete posts*

THE SMU vs NUS Law Debate

A view point from a SMU Law and Biz dd student

Modules: SMU does offer a range of modules which are non law. These help to give a firmer grounding in temrs of understanding some concepts and helps us see how things are done in practical reality. e.g. taking a course in finance helps us understand some terms and concpets used in corporate law better. no doubt I recognise that NUS law offers a wider range of modules than SMU, but one has to start somewhere right? SMU is currently actively recruiting faculty and is also working to increase the number and types of elective law mods it offers

Teaching Style: I actually do enjoy the Seminar teaching style. Having gone to JC I have experienced my fair share of lectures and tutorials. I feel the seminars are a refreshing change. They allow students to engage with their classmates and their professor better during class discussions for instance. Everyone ends up getting to know everyone else pretty well yes and your prof might even end up being good friends with you! Also you get to clarify your doubts as and when with the profs during the course of the seminar (contrast it with not being able to do so effectively during lectures). So really, you almost get individualised attention in SMU. THe profs are pretty approchable themselves.

Class participation: yes I recognise the fact that there may be that degeneration into some fiasco in class. HOwever that said one must take a full view of the situation. IN my SMU Law classes, I'd say that my law classmates do generally ask useful and thought provoking questions which generate quite a fair bit of class discussion and over time, we do learn through participation in these debates. For me, I have learnt to see things from different angles when I think thru questions posed by my classmates in class

SMU Grad preferences: Of coruse SMu is still in its infancy and so there may be the possibility that employers may favour NUS law grads. But I personally feel that at the end of the day it all boils down to capability and the ability to perform to expectations, rather than the uni which you came from. Nobody wants an incompetent lawyer, no matter what school you graduated from.

New-ness: a lot of things in SMU law school are still in its developmental stages, therefore, it gives many opportunities for students here to initiate new activities to add to our Law school's calendar. Many studnest from the first batch have taken the initiative to launch brand new activities and start new traditions here at SMU law school. There are numerous student initiated projects either already completed or are in the pipeline

So in all, this is just my personal take on some issues raised. As a final note, I'd say that though I've gotten acceptance letters from both NUS law and SMU law a couple of years ago, I chose SMu and I have never regretted my decision one bit
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:48 PM   #18
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Modules: SMU does offer a range of modules which are non law. These help to give a firmer grounding in temrs of understanding some concepts and helps us see how things are done in practical reality.
So Marine Engineering Schools who offer Law degrees and allow their students to take 40% of the content in Marine Engineering instead of deepening their knowledge in Law, is good?
Ditto for Aerospace Engineering Schools, Medical Schools (Forensic Laws), etc?

NUS is a comprehensive University, does that mean that whatever aspect of Law you wanna do, you can also choose those modules and surely get good grounding as with this argument?

I totally disagree with this line of argument.

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Teaching Style: I actually do enjoy the Seminar teaching style. Having gone to JC I have experienced my fair share of lectures and tutorials. I feel the seminars are a refreshing change.
No arguments on style preference. Some people do better in Tutorial styles, some do better in seminar styles.


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Originally Posted by jace View Post
They allow students to engage with their classmates and their professor better during class discussions for instance. Everyone ends up getting to know everyone else pretty well yes and your prof might even end up being good friends with you! Also you get to clarify your doubts as and when with the profs during the course of the seminar (contrast it with not being able to do so effectively during lectures). So really, you almost get individualised attention in SMU. THe profs are pretty approchable themselves.
As a comparison (since we are in a comparison thread), NUS Profs are not approachable, do not allow discussions during tutorials, and do not give individualised attention to students?

I believe these points are the same and similiar for both schools, and cannot be cited as a "strong point", especially when doing a comparison.

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Originally Posted by jace View Post
Class participation: yes I recognise the fact that there may be that degeneration into some fiasco in class. HOwever that said one must take a full view of the situation. IN my SMU Law classes, I'd say that my law classmates do generally ask useful and thought provoking questions which generate quite a fair bit of class discussion and over time, we do learn through participation in these debates. For me, I have learnt to see things from different angles when I think thru questions posed by my classmates in class.
Again I probe, NUS tutorials do not allow or encourage participation? If so, then this point is not in any way "comparative".

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Originally Posted by jace View Post
SMU Grad preferences: Of coruse SMu is still in its infancy and so there may be the possibility that employers may favour NUS law grads. But I personally feel that at the end of the day it all boils down to capability and the ability to perform to expectations, rather than the uni which you came from. Nobody wants an incompetent lawyer, no matter what school you graduated from.
Agree and disagree. Agree on personal competency, but disagree on employer preference. There will always be a bias one way or another. We are all humans after all!


Hehe sorry I am not discounting your story, but I just want to ask questions to put the "comparison" into context. Hope you don't mind.
________
Oregon dispensary

Last edited by Alex; 04-29-2011 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:32 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by jace View Post
*Pls ignore my earlier incomplete posts*

THE SMU vs NUS Law Debate

A view point from a SMU Law and Biz dd student

Modules: SMU does offer a range of modules which are non law. These help to give a firmer grounding in temrs of understanding some concepts and helps us see how things are done in practical reality. e.g. taking a course in finance helps us understand some terms and concpets used in corporate law better. no doubt I recognise that NUS law offers a wider range of modules than SMU, but one has to start somewhere right? SMU is currently actively recruiting faculty and is also working to increase the number and types of elective law mods it offers

Teaching Style: I actually do enjoy the Seminar teaching style. Having gone to JC I have experienced my fair share of lectures and tutorials. I feel the seminars are a refreshing change. They allow students to engage with their classmates and their professor better during class discussions for instance. Everyone ends up getting to know everyone else pretty well yes and your prof might even end up being good friends with you! Also you get to clarify your doubts as and when with the profs during the course of the seminar (contrast it with not being able to do so effectively during lectures). So really, you almost get individualised attention in SMU. THe profs are pretty approchable themselves.

Class participation: yes I recognise the fact that there may be that degeneration into some fiasco in class. HOwever that said one must take a full view of the situation. IN my SMU Law classes, I'd say that my law classmates do generally ask useful and thought provoking questions which generate quite a fair bit of class discussion and over time, we do learn through participation in these debates. For me, I have learnt to see things from different angles when I think thru questions posed by my classmates in class

SMU Grad preferences: Of coruse SMu is still in its infancy and so there may be the possibility that employers may favour NUS law grads. But I personally feel that at the end of the day it all boils down to capability and the ability to perform to expectations, rather than the uni which you came from. Nobody wants an incompetent lawyer, no matter what school you graduated from.

New-ness: a lot of things in SMU law school are still in its developmental stages, therefore, it gives many opportunities for students here to initiate new activities to add to our Law school's calendar. Many studnest from the first batch have taken the initiative to launch brand new activities and start new traditions here at SMU law school. There are numerous student initiated projects either already completed or are in the pipeline

So in all, this is just my personal take on some issues raised. As a final note, I'd say that though I've gotten acceptance letters from both NUS law and SMU law a couple of years ago, I chose SMu and I have never regretted my decision one bit
nice to hear the perspectives of a current smu student. looks like we agree that most of the differences are a matter of personal preference, with perhaps the only distinct advantage being nus' ability to offer more electives.
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:47 PM   #20
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So Marine Engineering Schools who offer Law degrees and allow their students to take 40% of the content in Marine Engineering instead of deepening their knowledge in Law, is good?
Ditto for Aerospace Engineering Schools, Medical Schools (Forensic Laws), etc?

NUS is a comprehensive University, does that mean that whatever aspect of Law you wanna do, you can also choose those modules and surely get good grounding as with this argument?

I totally disagree with this line of argument.
it would be natural for a university to want to leverage on its strengths and niche areas (in smu's case, corporate). with this in mind, if a specialty school offers a law program, i see it as a prudent decision for it to want to expose its students to its area of expertise, of course without compromising on the core law modules. instead of trying to compete directly against nus, why not try to offer something different.

as i speculated earlier and confirmed by jace , smu's program should provide a firmer foundation for matters relating to corporate and business law. similarly, your hypothetical maritime school should also produce students more at ease with general knowledge of the entire shipping business, something that would be beneficial if they're going to be shipping lawyers.

there is a limit to the number of cross faculty modules that nus law allows its students to take. i think it's 12 credits worth or something like that. the rest will be fully allocated to law electives. this means you can't go do a lot of business modules and be a pseudo business student. an alternative would be the llb + bba double degree program that is offered by nus that would give you a lot to learn about both subjects. but ddps are another matter altogether.

basically, all i'm trying to say is that if you're sure you want to go into corporate, smu would be a good option. if you want to sample more facets of legal education, then nus would allow you to do that. despite what smu says about its lawyers not only being corporate lawyers, i do believe that their curriculum prepares them for that and in the process, compromises slightly on the legal side of things.

Last edited by johnny; 03-13-2009 at 06:56 PM.
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