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Old 05-27-2009, 06:55 AM   #21
spencer
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Originally Posted by sonrocker View Post
Ur reply makes me wonder why the university is more important than the course U mean they dun care what u specialise in and just anyhow offer u a place just because u are from the top school, regardless of whether u can perform? How true is this in the singapore market, to say the least? U are speaking from experience i guess? [ from the perspective of a recruiter or a job-seeker ]
Awaiting ur reply.

P.S: Talking abt binning CVs, if u have 3 candidates in hands [ 1 nus, 1 ntu, 1 smu ], assuming the course they took doesnt matter, which one would u pick just for a finance job?
NUS NTU and SMU (and HKU, HKUST, etc) are ~ the same, all Singapore based local universities.

If you have NUS, SMU and UPenn competing for a job in Singapore based investment banking dept, I can almost certainly confirm that the candidate from UPenn will get the offer, baring exceptional circumstances.

If you are from a top school that means you are very smart. They can teach you the rest.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:55 AM   #22
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NUS NTU and SMU (and HKU, HKUST, etc) are ~ the same, all Singapore based local universities.

If you have NUS, SMU and UPenn competing for a job in Singapore based investment banking dept, I can almost certainly confirm that the candidate from UPenn will get the offer, baring exceptional circumstances.

If you are from a top school that means you are very smart. They can teach you the rest.
Let's say there's a finance company (e.g. bank) looking for a worker to do a finance job. They have 2 potential employees to choose from: NUS BBA graduate with a major in finance and Harvard grad who majored in psychology (sidenote: you have an issue with this subject?). So in your opinion, the bank will employ the harvard grad who knows nuts about finance instead of the NUS grad who already has the basic relevant knowledge about finance which will reduce the need for training?

And I'm also curious on your take on sonrocker's question "if u have 3 candidates in hands [ 1 nus, 1 ntu, 1 smu ], assuming the course they took doesnt matter, which one would u pick just for a finance job?". I believe your response, "If you have NUS, SMU and UPenn competing for a job in Singapore..." was not in context of his question.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:41 AM   #23
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Let's say there's a finance company (e.g. bank) looking for a worker to do a finance job. They have 2 potential employees to choose from: NUS BBA graduate with a major in finance and Harvard grad who majored in psychology (sidenote: you have an issue with this subject?). So in your opinion, the bank will employ the harvard grad who knows nuts about finance instead of the NUS grad who already has the basic relevant knowledge about finance which will reduce the need for training?

And I'm also curious on your take on sonrocker's question "if u have 3 candidates in hands [ 1 nus, 1 ntu, 1 smu ], assuming the course they took doesnt matter, which one would u pick just for a finance job?". I believe your response, "If you have NUS, SMU and UPenn competing for a job in Singapore..." was not in context of his question.
The Harvard psychology student will be taken with absolute certainty (for the bank job).

NUS, NTU and SMU students are basically equal for positions in Asia. The fear for NTU and SMU students is that their CVs will get binned before they got a look.

What you learn about finance in university is a joke. How much securitisation can you really learn in university? Not even in a master course can you become useful!
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:33 PM   #24
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The Harvard psychology student will be taken with absolute certainty (for the bank job).
=> Well, that might be true. This is what i infer from ur replies: as long as one is smart [u think his intelligence is solely reflected by his school name ??], he can be taught to do a finance job as most of the knowledge comes from on-the-job training. Am i right to say that?

NUS, NTU and SMU students are basically equal for positions in Asia. The fear for NTU and SMU students is that their CVs will get binned before they got a look.

=> Somehow i feel the 2nd sentence raises inconsistency in the idea because if all 3 are equally positioned, why only NTU n SMU CVs get binned ? Are u saying that all NUS students are superior/smarter than their NTU, SMU counterparts? I really wonder how true.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks.
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencer View Post
The Harvard psychology student will be taken with absolute certainty (for the bank job).

NUS, NTU and SMU students are basically equal for positions in Asia. The fear for NTU and SMU students is that their CVs will get binned before they got a look.

What you learn about finance in university is a joke. How much securitisation can you really learn in university? Not even in a master course can you become useful!
On this point, I think spencer is right. Although I have no first-hand information from high-powered recruiters, I have read a number of management books which basically say that certain qualities (talents) are innate but others (skills and knowledge) can be trained. Therefore, for general positions, a recruiter should always choose a candidate based on his talents rather than his skills.

Maybe it is too extreme to say that the Harvard grad will be chosen over the NUS grad every single time, but we can't avoid the fact that Harvard graduates are generally analytically smarter and faster learners than their NUS counterparts. As mentioned above, these talents take priority over skills or knowledge, which can roughly be equated with the course of study.
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Old 05-28-2009, 04:17 PM   #26
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I'm very curious as to how many JC grads there are out there who are actually seriously contemplating between Harvard psych (or an equivalent social science course at a TOP top uni) and NUS finance (or other local business course).

I can imagine someone choosing between Rice and NUS (like one of the forummers), but Harvard vs NUS?? Save for financial reasons, it seems like a no-brainer to me. Even then I would have thought a Singaporean who is Harvard material should be able to get finaid/scholarships from whatever source.

Having said that... I wonder what is the point of asking about employer preference when you can't change the fact about which group you belong in.

Besides, I'm very amused at how the topic always goes back to finance. Why doesn't anyone care about the employment practices outside of finance? Because from my experience, employers aren't that hard up about "brand name degrees" in other industries.
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Old 05-28-2009, 04:42 PM   #27
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Besides, I'm very amused at how the topic always goes back to finance.
Hi, it's probably because this thread is about career in business, accountancy & Finance

I'm not sure what's happening in other industries though but for finance-related job, I can alr see it's quite tough.
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Old 05-28-2009, 05:37 PM   #28
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I wonder what is the point of asking about employer preference when you can't change the fact about which group you belong in.
The point is this: To satisfy my curiosity.

I know a NUS student will definitely lose out to a Harvard student because of the university branding. Its a fact I wont deny. But what I did not expect was that employers will give total disregard (according to spencer) to course of study and whether or not it is relevant to the job scope when viewing the CV of a NUS and Harvard student. Yes I can't change the fact about which group I'm in, but what I can change is my attitude, perception and expectations towards my job-seeking process in future.

What point did I gain from asking that qn and reading people's views? A new insight I previously did not have. And curiosity satisfied.
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:27 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by sonrocker View Post
The Harvard psychology student will be taken with absolute certainty (for the bank job).
=> Well, that might be true. This is what i infer from ur replies: as long as one is smart [u think his intelligence is solely reflected by his school name ??], he can be taught to do a finance job as most of the knowledge comes from on-the-job training. Am i right to say that?

NUS, NTU and SMU students are basically equal for positions in Asia. The fear for NTU and SMU students is that their CVs will get binned before they got a look.

=> Somehow i feel the 2nd sentence raises inconsistency in the idea because if all 3 are equally positioned, why only NTU n SMU CVs get binned ? Are u saying that all NUS students are superior/smarter than their NTU, SMU counterparts? I really wonder how true.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks.
If you need to look for the best and brightest in Japan, isn't University of Tokyo a logical place to start?
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:38 PM   #30
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The point is this: To satisfy my curiosity.

I know a NUS student will definitely lose out to a Harvard student because of the university branding. Its a fact I wont deny. But what I did not expect was that employers will give total disregard (according to spencer) to course of study and whether or not it is relevant to the job scope when viewing the CV of a NUS and Harvard student. Yes I can't change the fact about which group I'm in, but what I can change is my attitude, perception and expectations towards my job-seeking process in future.

What point did I gain from asking that qn and reading people's views? A new insight I previously did not have. And curiosity satisfied.
For finance recruitment there's list of "target" universities. Obviously, American universities (like Ivies, eg Dartmouth) populate the list for NY office. For London, it is populated by the top European (British included) universities. For AXJ recruiting, I'm sorry to say that because none of the NAJ universities are well developed, the target list seems to be American and anglo-saxon universities.

Logically, if you are Asian, can speak Chinese and want to get ahead, the best thing you can do right now is to get a degree from elite Chinese universities. The only direction for their prestige is up and you can bet that Asia (including Australia and New Zealand) will get China centric in no time.
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