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Old 08-09-2017, 11:13 PM   #61
unknownsoul
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Nope! Congrats :-) Prolly because I just sent it in for the second round. Really depends on what your considerations are?
Thanks My considerations are travelling distance, cost of living and career prospects.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:17 AM   #62
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1. Unley,is trying to warn you guys,that the investment to study what you like is worthy of fine consideration because the reality of employment opportunities post-graduation isn't so good. Everyone wants to study what they like,but it takes greater knowledge to know what is best for you,coming from a first-person perspective,medical student in Australia,who is offering you credible advice.Of course,at the end of the day,you can still choose to go with your decision and stick through it and yep,the government cannot guarantee you a place to work.

2. Trends might not reflect the future,but one thing is for sure:With the rising number of medical schools and their advance policies(The medical department plan 4-5 years ahead,so that can gauge how is the employment opportunities like in the next couple of years),it is almost certain that things are not looking too well and are the sacrifices really worth it in the long run,when you are already having doubts about your future career prospects.

3. Always have safety nets,good that you are already thinking about this. A lot of medical graduates wouldn't be able to stomach working in a research setting,after having been well trained in clinical settings. Ultimately,the goal of medical school is to train you to work in hospitals,rural regions. There are a number of doctors who eventually,decide to go down the path of research,after their medical degree. Having a degree in clinical sciences,definitely gives you an opportunity to venture out to research fields,if things don't go the way they are.

Not everything is crash and burn,but with the options presented to you,do take this time to talk to any of your friends currently studying medicine in Australia or even better,medical graduates from Australia.If you don't really have a community based in Australia yet, I suggest going over here and joining the flinders medical society group.

http://www.smsanz.sg/our-member-societies.html

By seeking others' opinions,you wouldn't limit yourself to individual opinion and at the end of it,make a more informed decision and not end up regretting the choices you make.
Hi seniors,

Thank you for your input. There are still some issues and I would like to hear your opinions,

1. I agree that job prospects might not be as good. However, medicine is one of the fields that graduates fare better in, in terms of finding a job. I would like to know how do you perceive the current/future medical situation to be like in the context of Singapore/Australia. I would like to ask whether in the local context, whether people perceive overseas graduates from various schools differently?

2. Employment opportunities not looking too well; may I ask for more explanation on this? Overseas med graduates would be competing for spaces with the current/a year after batches from locals - which is about 420 Doctors. (Excluding older batches and non-local overseas med graduates)I'm not sure if it's considered stiff? I understand the govt is trying to increase the intake due to an Aging population and increased medical needs.

3. Doctors that go in research; are there any additional qualifications needed?

I hope this can help all of us make a more informed decision.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:27 AM   #63
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Thanks My considerations are travelling distance, cost of living and career prospects.
Travelling distance in terms of? Cost of living definitely UTAS would be the one of the cheapest Career prospects; I'm not too sure about that, meaning which university will affect it?
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:16 PM   #64
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Hey Jedrek thanks for lending your voice even though I don't know you. I feel strongly that potential juniors know as much as possible about the current situation before they embark on an expensive journey that might leave them jobless at the end of their studies.


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Hi seniors,

Thank you for your input. There are still some issues and I would like to hear your opinions,

1. I agree that job prospects might not be as good. However, medicine is one of the fields that graduates fare better in, in terms of finding a job. I would like to know how do you perceive the current/future medical situation to be like in the context of Singapore/Australia. I would like to ask whether in the local context, whether people perceive overseas graduates from various schools differently?

>>> Its very simple and straight forward in Australia. I am going to emphasize this TL,DR: YOU WILL NOT GET A JOB IN AUSTRALIA. Scroll up to discussions above to see the current dire situation in South Australia w.r.t internship numbers. Without an internship your MD/MBBS is effectively useless because you can't get registered post graduation.

Medical student numbers in Australia have increased exponentially over the years such that the number of internship places which are federally funded have not caught up to the similar increase in demand hence creating the internship crisis.

The stop gap measure for this is the CMI scheme in which would have run out by the time you guys graduate (unless of course they extend it). In spite of this, the government has approved new medical schools which will graduate more students which will exacerbate the problem (yes, looking at you Curtin and Macquaire etc). These schools would add more students to directly compete with you guys for the limited local jobs as it is. Of course local domestic Australians/PRs are preferenced over you guys as foreigners for jobs. If the locals can't get jobs, what about you? (Having said that, at the time of writing, no locals have been yet to secure a job, but the numbers are looking pretty dire and people will lose out unless jobs magically appear, which they possibly could.)

In case you do miraculously obtain a job, also please note that you might no longer be able to stay anyway due to this year's abolishment of the skilled worker visa. This would be a topic for another discussion because the point is, you won't get a job in Australia anyway.

As far as I am aware, the very public refrain is that it doesn't matter what medical school you come from when you work in Singapore as long as you are competent. However, your competency is directly correlated to the school you went to because that would be where you obtain your training from. This is exactly why if you insist on choosing a foreign medical school, choose the best school you can go to. This would help distinguish yourself to better compete for limited jobs when it comes down to applying back to Singapore. My personal opinion on this matter is quite clear if you read my previous posts. Don't choose to go to Flinders. <<<


2. Employment opportunities not looking too well; may I ask for more explanation on this? Overseas med graduates would be competing for spaces with the current/a year after batches from locals - which is about 420 Doctors. (Excluding older batches and non-local overseas med graduates)I'm not sure if it's considered stiff? I understand the govt is trying to increase the intake due to an Aging population and increased medical needs.

>>> The trend in Singapore is increasing numbers from medical students, both from local sources as well as from returning overseas universities. Yes I consider the situation to be very stiff because unlike other degrees in which you can work in a variety of jobs post graduation, your MD/MBBS is essentially useless if you can't get a houseman/intern job because then you are not a registerable doctor. A few posters talked about choosing a career you like but if you can't even secure a job I am not sure what you even mean by choosing a career you like/have a passion in/whatever you want to say.

Yes, the government might be trying to increase intake but it appears that they are already scaling down their recruitment. Can't tell you what will happen in 4-6 years when you graduate. A surrogate in which to measure demand might be the PEG. Ask you seniors and they can tell you. The numbers given out have already been dwindling over the years. Surely if they are still actively recruiting this wouldn't have been the case? Last year, MOHH held interviews in almost all the capital cities of Australia for the PEG. This year, they only held interviews in Sydney and Melbourne. Still actively recruiting? Might have to reconsider if this is true. We don't even know if they PEG as a scheme would still exist after 2018. Why would they do this if they are really in need of many more doctors in Singapore? <<<


3. Doctors that go in research; are there any additional qualifications needed?

>>> As a medical student you are already expected to be churning out research. Not sure what additional qualifications you are referring to, but if you don't get a job as a doctor you can't call yourself a doctor doing research. But I suppose there is no one to stop a MD/MBBS holder from doing full time research, but this begs the question of why do it in the first place, and wouldn't the potential employer prefer a PhD or any other more suitably qualified person instead? <<<


I hope this can help all of us make a more informed decision.
Please don't let the emotional rush of getting an acceptance letter into medical school cloud your judgement. You guys have not even started and it is not too late to change your mind. I am almost pleading with all of you to be rational and sane. Either way one of us will be able to look back at this thread in 4-6 years' time and tell the other "I told you so". If all of you get a job and a training position of your choice, it is an excellent outcome and I am more than happy to have been proven wrong. However if I am right, you just bought yourself a very very expensive piece of paper and also a golden ticket to unemployment with the bonus of this debt hanging over your shoulders while being supremely unqualified to do any other job because you were simply not educated/trained in them. You can be an idealist but you can never deny reality.
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:37 AM   #65
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Hey Jedrek thanks for lending your voice even though I don't know you. I feel strongly that potential juniors know as much as possible about the current situation before they embark on an expensive journey that might leave them jobless at the end of their studies.




Please don't let the emotional rush of getting an acceptance letter into medical school cloud your judgement. You guys have not even started and it is not too late to change your mind. I am almost pleading with all of you to be rational and sane. Either way one of us will be able to look back at this thread in 4-6 years' time and tell the other "I told you so". If all of you get a job and a training position of your choice, it is an excellent outcome and I am more than happy to have been proven wrong. However if I am right, you just bought yourself a very very expensive piece of paper and also a golden ticket to unemployment with the bonus of this debt hanging over your shoulders while being supremely unqualified to do any other job because you were simply not educated/trained in them. You can be an idealist but you can never deny reality.
Hi Unley,

I have a couple of final questions. I would like to know why Flinders is not recommended and perhaps not good for producing doctors. I'm currently contemplating UNSW and Flinders and really would like your input.

From what I understand, of course, UNSW is established for research and generally reputable in many areas. I understand Flinders is not in the Go8; however, I've heard that Flinders is pioneering in many aspects eg. PBL and having the first MD. Flinders also seems to be quite forward in their teaching methods in terms of engaging students and spend some time on their development. Not sure if this means better quality?

As for UNSW, I know they are a tried and tested route with many sporeans. However, since they are a big school I do know that not much time is given to each student due to their larger population for med. Rank wise definitely better but am not sure if this translates in quality?

Would kindly seek your opinions on this as first-hand accounts in Australia now.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:05 PM   #66
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1.I would like to know how do you perceive the current/future medical situation to be like in the context of Singapore/Australia. I would like to ask whether in the local context, whether people perceive overseas graduates from various schools differently?

Yes,I know quite a number of my friends in Australia medical schools,are seeking to practise medicine abroad after their graduation,for fear of being treated as a second-rate doctor in Singapore. >> Based on system,you require 1 more extra year to be fully registered,compared to local doctors.(min. 2 yrs) I have heard of some people taking more than the minimum 2 years to be fully registered as a doctor,after studying abroad overseas.

http://www.healthprofessionals.gov.s...istration.html

The treatment towards overseas graduates tend not to be so pleasant,given the political atmosphere of the hospital working environment,where people see a need to focus on differences rather than similarities. Both of these reasons are a major push factor for my friends to return back to Singapore to practise med.



2. Employment opportunities not looking too well; may I ask for more explanation on this? Overseas med graduates would be competing for spaces with the current/a year after batches from locals - which is about 420 Doctors. (Excluding older batches and non-local overseas med graduates)I'm not sure if it's considered stiff? I understand the govt is trying to increase the intake due to an Aging population and increased medical needs.

I think it definitely isn't guaranteed that you can get a position of training in Singapore,unless you are in the PEG scheme. The number of places in local medical schools are increasing:
http://www.straitstimes.com/singapor...0-by-next-year

And there are still places for IMG doctors from overseas countries with good credentials that are also trying to work here.Will definitely agree with unley that the employment prospects for doctors is stabilising,definitely not as demanding as it was in the past.For all we know,it might increase in demand over the next couple of years,but it's always better to err towards the safe side than take the risk.


3. Doctors that go in research; are there any additional qualifications needed?

I believe it is important to take up research attachments/projects during the med school journey to get a glimpse into the working environment in research. I will say that physicians are needed in the research atmosphere to complement PhD researchers. Primarily because of their expertise in clinical settings,it gives them an edge to look at a different approach when solving key research problems.This gives rise to clinician scientists,doctors trained in clinical skillsets and research to improve medical practice.

As for additional qualifications,I don't think it's necessary,but of course,some will go on to do a PhD after their medical degree if they feel that additional training in research is important.
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